How to crop 16:9 to 4:3

alekdavis
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Joined: 10 Apr 2009, 04:46

How to crop 16:9 to 4:3

Postby alekdavis » 10 Apr 2009, 05:28

I am a video novice, so forgive me if I'm asking something basic.

I have a wide screen video clip encoded in QuickTime Motion JPEG (.MOV files), which I want to convert to 4x3 resolution and a format that Windows Movie Maker would take, preferably Advanced Profile MPEG4 (.AVI file); I would like to minimize quality loss during conversion. When I use the Easy Mode and select a 4x3 video output format, the video becomes squeezed (narrow and tall). I think I need to crop the video (from the right and left sides), but I can't figure out what to enter in the Expert Mode settings. I tried various settings (like turning the Crop option on and setting B and R - I assume these indicate Bottom and Right - to 480 and 640 just to test if it would crop) but nothing seemed to work (in some cases I got errors, and when not, for some reason, I got a JPEG output file as a result).

Is this possible? I don't mind if I need to do it in several steps. Here is the relevant info about the original video:

FileSize/String: 72 Config_Text_FloatSeparator2 MiB
OverallBitRate/String: 12 Config_Text_FloatSeparator9 Mbps
Format : M-JPEG
CodecID: jpeg
BitRate_Mode/String: VBR
BitRate/String : 12 Config_Text_FloatSeparator6 Mbps
Width/String: 848 pixel3
Height/String: 480 pixel3
DisplayAspectRatio/String: 16/9
FrameRate_Mode/String: CFR
FrameRate/String: 30 Config_Text_FloatSeparator000 fps3
Bits-(Pixel*Frame): 1.034
StreamSize/String: 70 Config_Text_FloatSeparator7 MiB (98%)
Audio Format: PCM
Format_Settings_Endianness: Big
Format_Settings_Sign: Signed
CodecID: twos
BitRate_Mode/String: CBR
BitRate/String: 256 Kbps
Channel(s)/String: 1 channel1
SamplingRate/String: 16 Config_Text_FloatSeparator0 KHz
Resolution/String: 16 bit3
StreamSize/String: 1 Config_Text_FloatSeparator43 MiB (2%)

Many thanks in advance.
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Team Cocoon
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Re: How to crop 16:9 to 4:3

Postby Team Cocoon » 11 Apr 2009, 00:43

Hello and welcome ,

I am not 100% sure but almost to say that windows movie maker would not support avi files...

Concerning your file I think a good option would be to convert it to dvd (mpeg) that would result in almost no loss of quality if any. The only thing is that it would probably be a much larger output file but would be supported by movie maker .
To do this you would have to place your file in the active worksheet , then click on the DVD icone and select 4/3 pal or NTSC HQ
Ntsc if you live in the US Pal for Europe .

You can do the same with the windows Icon and select windows media player format custom resize ( put in the value you wish to have in W and H . and you should then get a wmv format file supported by movie maker .

You also have the option of using expert mode and increase bitrate freq there to increase output quality.

I hope this answers your question .
Have a good easter.
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alekdavis
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Re: How to crop 16:9 to 4:3

Postby alekdavis » 11 Apr 2009, 01:36

Windows Movie Maker supports MPEG4 (.avi) files generated by Flip Ultra videocam.

I'm not sure I'm following your http://www.cocoonsoftware.com/paypaldonate-us.htm. Let's forget about the format conversion for a moment (assume that I want to keep it in the QuickTime format) and rephrase the question:

Which settings do I need to use to crop a 16x9 QuickTime (.mov) file to make it 4x3 (basically, i want to crop the 848x480 video to make it 640x480)?

If I understand this correctly, when I use the 4x3 conversion option (e.g. when I set W and H, or select a 4x3 output file format), QMC does not crop the video, it just squeezes the original width into the new width (848 pixels into 640 pixels in my case) so everything becomes tall and narrow (at least this is what I saw when I tried it). This is not what I want. I want to crop the video width, i.e. remove vertical strips (each 104 pixels wide) from the left and right sides so only the middle 640x480 pixels area would be transferred to the new file. I assume this is what the crop option is for. I just can't figure out how to use it, since there are no hints on what the settings are supposed to be and I don't have enough experience to guess them correctly.

Or am I completely misunderstanding the functionality?

Thanks.
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Team Cocoon
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Re: How to crop 16:9 to 4:3

Postby Team Cocoon » 11 Apr 2009, 02:57

Hello again ,

just write : in w: 640 and H:480 in whatever conversion format selection that allows custom resize.

I never really tried mp4 avi in movie maker as I didn t expect it to work . Since it didn t work for avi divx
you could then use ipod custom resize (mp4) I suppose it would be ok .^

Cropping is only available in expert mode last tab but it would only cut and not resize your video you should activate cropping by clicking on the red dot and make it become green. (u upper b bottom Left and right)



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alekdavis
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Re: How to crop 16:9 to 4:3

Postby alekdavis » 11 Apr 2009, 07:40

Team Cocoon wrote:Cropping is only available in expert mode last tab but it would only cut and not resize your video you should activate cropping by clicking on the red dot and make it become green.
This is exactly what I need. I do not need to resize the video, I want to crop it. I click the dot, but I could not figured out other settings. In particular, what should the values of U, B, R, and L be (assuming I want to crop the middle 640x480 rectangle from the original 848x480 video)? I tried several option, but kept getting errors stating that the values are outside of the boundaries of the original video (although I did not use values higher than 480 and 640). What are the Pad settings? Do I need to set them, too? Why do I need to set Capture picture at to a 5-300 value (I don't really need to capture any pictures, but it kept asking me to enter a valid value)? Which setting should I use in the Video and Audio Options? In particular, how do I know which codec to use? What do I put in the FFormat, BitRate, Frame, and Cmd? Should I check 2 Pass Encoding? What's the purpose of the Force Format check box? What's the point of the Don't Encode video option (the dot in the Video Options tab is green, so how can it also be disabled at the same time)? Since I assume that U, B, R, and L values determine the size of the output video, what do I use for Aspect and W/H settings? If I use the 4x3 aspect, will it resize the video to 4x3 before cropping it? What about audio settings? I can figure out some (such as Bit Rate) based on the input file info, but for others it's not clear. For example, if audio format is PCM, which one of the many pcm codecs do I pick? What volume do I use? What about Audio Sync? Is there any help info describing the video and audio settings? It would be really helpful (at least for video novices like me) if the crop option was available in easy mode. Or maybe have an option in expert mode to use the same settings for output as input (only to allow cropping). Thanks.
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Re: How to crop 16:9 to 4:3

Postby Team Cocoon » 11 Apr 2009, 13:51

Hello and thanks for your complete question,

As we have mentionned before in this forum and on our website expert mode is for advanced users only, in order to use it you should have something else than just novice knowledge.

This is the reason why we do not support expert mode as if we did we would be spending all our time helping to infinite number of questions. We have however implemented profilesfor starters in expert mode , what they do is they load typical profiles and from there you can start trial and error method to obtain what you need.

The other functions are standard video conversion function and to use them properly it is needed to read a lot about video conversion for this I recommend this site : http://forum.videohelp.com. I hope this helps you and in view of the numerous possibilities offered you will understand that it would become too time consuming for us to help everyone with their specific needs in expert mode .

Have a nice day .
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alekdavis
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Re: How to crop 16:9 to 4:3

Postby alekdavis » 11 Apr 2009, 21:12

Okay, thanks. I'll check out the profiles section. I understand your point about having some knowledge in order to use the expert mode, so I'll try to learn more. It would be helpful, thought to have some rudimentary help system (like a basic HTML -- CHM -- help file explaining the meaning of the dialog controls, like video settings, etc) and maybe tooltips. This is not hard to do. Let me know if you are interested and maybe I can help you out if you haven't done this before. Thanks again.
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Re: How to crop 16:9 to 4:3

Postby Team Cocoon » 15 Apr 2009, 17:15

Hello again,

Thank you for your http://www.cocoonsoftware.com/paypaldonate-us.htm and understanding , I will try to make up some sort of help file for the expert mode ,

Here are a few articles you may find interesting :

http://www.cocoonsoftware.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=560

How to upload a profile

Icones and their explanations

Some demos and tutorials

We hope this helps :D

Have a good day
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Mister-T
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Re: How to crop 16:9 to 4:3

Postby Mister-T » 24 May 2009, 17:22

To convert 848x480 to 640x480 by 'cutting off the sides' you need to crop 208 pixels off the width - this should be 104 off each side.

Enable cropping on the edit tab and enter 108 in the L and R fields.

The crop fields are
U - upper
B - bottom
R - right
L - left
Enter a number and this amount of pixels will be cut off that side.

If you wish to retain the whole image but have black bars at the top and bottom you use pad instead
848x480 can go to 848x636 (4:3 ratio requiring the height to have 156 pixel padding i.e. 88 at the top and 88 at the bottom)
848x480 to 640x480 requires more maths - 640 divided by 848 is 0.7547.... , multiply this by 480 to get 362 pixels (the new video height if no distortion is required) so padding of 118 is required i.e. 59 at top and bottom.

You could also compromise and cut a bit off the sides and pad a bit at top and bottom (like some TV's do) but I haven't tried this.
Try 50 crop at the sides and 25 pad at top and bottom (I haven't done the maths - this is a reasonable guess!)

I hope this is useful
alekdavis
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Re: How to crop 16:9 to 4:3

Postby alekdavis » 25 May 2009, 07:10

Thank you Mister-T. I'm going to try this.
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Re: How to crop 16:9 to 4:3

Postby Cocoon-Dev » 25 May 2009, 09:30

Hello,

if you want, we can made a profil with cropping for example.

Have a nice day.
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alekdavis
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Re: How to crop 16:9 to 4:3

Postby alekdavis » 29 May 2009, 08:10

Oh, thanks Cocoon-Dev. Sorry, I missed the notification for the post. A profile for the crop may be handy (for other users), but at this point I don't need it. I just accomplished what I was trying to do in a couple of easy steps in Avidemux 2.4.4. It was dead simple. What I liked was that it showed me a preview of the cropped video, so I was able to adjust the crop settings until I found the best combination of the left/right crop sizes. I was also able to convert the QuickTime (.MOV) file to H.264 (.AVI), and although I did not understand half of the settings, the defaults produced reasonably good video. Thanks for you help.
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Re: How to crop 16:9 to 4:3

Postby Team Cocoon » 29 May 2009, 12:47

Hello and thank you for the information,

Have a great day
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