Audio qulity on H.264 Expert-mode

meArnon
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Audio qulity on H.264 Expert-mode

Postby meArnon » 25 Sep 2008, 21:06

Hi,

I'm converting mjpeg files taken by my canon to H.264.
On Simple-mode the audio quality is grate - spectrum is up to 20khz (I have an audio analyzer), but the video quality is not that good.
For improving the video quality I used expert-mode and increased the bit-rate, as a result the quality got much better but the audio quality got much worse - goes only up to 6 khz.
I tried to use various figures of audio bit-rate but didn't succeed to improve it.
Now I'm stuck between choosing good audio or good video....

Please please help, my HD is drowning with all that mjpeg files...

TIA.
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Team Cocoon
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Re: Audio qulity on H.264 Expert-mode

Postby Team Cocoon » 27 Sep 2008, 14:15

Hello and welcome ,

Since we never came accross your problem , we would need you to send us a sample file for analysis, could you find one file and send it to us via rapidshare.com ?

In advance thank you ,

Have a good day
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meArnon
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Re: Audio qulity on H.264 Expert-mode

Postby meArnon » 27 Sep 2008, 22:12

HI,

Thanks for your response, here is the link for the my files:
http://rapidshare.com/files/148921076/H ... t.zip.html

See the readme.txt file within the ZIP pack.

Thanks,
Arnon.
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Re: Audio qulity on H.264 Expert-mode

Postby Team Cocoon » 28 Sep 2008, 02:32

Hello and Thank you for the file which I received well ,

I had a quick look already and will also let Gilles analyse it , I already noticed something strange ,

The easy mode file has somehow been enlarged from 640x480 ( original ) to 720x 576 that in itself creates without a doubt a loss in quality of the video. It therefore looks like you located a bug in the command line preset we are using to do this conversion.
We will evidently confirm and correct it for the next version about to come out this month we hope.

For expert mode

I just had a look at your settings , first of all in order to make audio changes for bitrate and frequency as well as codec the button in N° 6 must be green otherwise your changes will not be taken into account...

SO I checked to convert the file using audio settings as follows :
Audio ( on green )
codec : aac
Bitrate 200
Freq rate 98000

Format mp4
Video (on green)
Codec h264
bitrate 1750
frame rate 29.97

And if I hear correctly even though I am not a musician , the sound seems better than what you submitted to us .

Gilles the developper will also check tomorrow or so . But I think you will be satisfied with these settings .

Here is the technical info for the file converted in expert mode .

General

CompleteName : C:\Documents and Settings\jlg\Bureau\Converted Files\MVI_1222_converted.mp4

Format : MPEG-4

Format_Profile : Base Media

CodecID : isom

FileSize/String : 4.15 MiB

Duration/String : 16s 583ms

OveralBitRate/String : 2098 Kbps

Encoded_Date : UTC 1970-01-01 00:00:00

Tagged_Date : UTC 1970-01-01 00:00:00



Video

Format : AVC

Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec

Format_Profile : Baseline@L5.1

Format_Settings_CABAC : No

Format_Settings_RefFrames : 1

CodecID : avc1

Duration/String : 16s 583ms

BitRate_Mode : VBR

BitRate/String : 1959 Kbps

Width/String : 640 pixel3

Height/String : 480 pixel3

DisplayAspectRatio/String : 4/3

FrameRate_Mode : CFR

FrameRate/String : 29.970 fps3

Colorimetry : 4:2:0

ScanType/String : Progressive

Bits-(Pixel*Frame) : 0.213

StreamSize/String : 3.87 MiB

Encoded_Date : UTC 1970-01-01 00:00:00

Tagged_Date : UTC 1970-01-01 00:00:00



Audio

Format : AAC

Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec

Format_Version : Version 4

Format_Profile : LC

Format_Settings_SBR : No

Duration/String : 16s 530ms

BitRate_Mode : VBR

BitRate/String : 132.3 Kbps

Channel(s)/String : 2 channel2

ChannelPositions : L R

SamplingRate/String : 96.0 KHz

Resolution/String : 16 bit3

StreamSize/String : 263 KiB

Encoded_Date : UTC 1970-01-01 00:00:00

Tagged_Date : UTC 1970-01-01 00:00:00

I hope it solves your problem .

As I do not have a spectrum analyser on hand thanks for letting us know :)

Have a good day.
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meArnon
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Re: Audio qulity on H.264 Expert-mode

Postby meArnon » 28 Sep 2008, 19:41

Hi again and thanks for your assistance.

The Audio quality did got better but still it does not reach the level of the easy mode:
Source file bandwidth (mjpeg-->wav) - 22khz
Easy mode bandwidth - 16khz
Expert mode when audio is default (red) - 6khz
Expert mode using your setting - 11khz , better and even something I can leave with (-:
Still I hope you'll agree that expert mode should not be worse then the easy mode.

Some more remarks:
1a. The term "freq. rate" is not correct, it should be either "sampling rate" or "sampling freq."
1b. The sampling rate is reported to be 44.1khz of both the source and all the converted files,
so I don't get the 48k/96k figures, I will be happy to study it help you out but I will need some pointers to start with.

2. I was thinking how the expert-mode can become a bit more friendly.
A simple way is to put the easy-mode parameters as default values on the text boxes
and so one can get a feeling of the numbers and set it for more or less.
As it is today user has to "guess" or really be an expert of both audio and video figures.
It will also be more "professional" to note the units of the figures (kbps for the rates, Hz etc.)

3. The progress bar sometimes goes off the scale or finishes way before the 100%.

4. On expert-mode, does "red light" of the setting means that it will use the same setting of the easy mode ?

5. It will be really cool to have command-line execution option, this way people like me can write scripts
in order to make drop-replacement of converted file into their origin directory.
(Usually not all the files are located at the same dir., people sorts them out).
Today I need to spread the converted files manually back to their place.

6. On "stop converting" the application continues to the next file on the list, better to enable a way to stop completely.

7. If I can assist in any way I'll be happy to (I'm a realtime/DSP programmer and developer)
I'm willing to investigate this audio issue but I will need tools you have.

Arnon.
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Re: Audio qulity on H.264 Expert-mode

Postby Team Cocoon » 28 Sep 2008, 23:34

Hello again Amon :)

Thanks for all your comments and http://www.cocoonsoftware.com/paypaldonate-us.htm,

As I explained before , I am not the developer Gilles is and he is aware of this thread and he will answer it very shortly as he knows much better than me all these issues . As for the quality of the audio I just ran a few tests yesterday and came up with those settings , but not neccessarily the best ones I agree and as you said it is mostly trial and error.

So to go back on a few of your points :

It is common knowledge that the tools we use for our conversions is FFMPEG , the rest is Gilles that compiles homemade command lines and fits them to the GUI so I am not able to confirm or not those frequencies discreptencies you talk about. I will reasonably talk only about what I know and let Gilles figure out or check the rest with you.

Thanks again for your kind information and interest ,

Have a nice day.
Jean Louis


1)
Sampling rate
: I am pretty sure you are right about that name and it is not freq rate we should rename it on the GUI we will try to change that in the next version comming very soon planned sometimes towards mid to en October.

2)
expert-mode can become a bit more friendly.
You seem to have very good ideas, the only thing is that you may have noticed that we have much more formats and codecs available in expert mode , also for your information , if a codec or format is supported by ffmpeg and does not appear in the combo box just type in the codec and it will appear and be remebered if it is present in the ffmpeg library. So the possibility of doing that probably would only be realistic and limited to the formats offered in the easy mode to allow a bit more flexibility for the users.

3)
Progress bar:
We would be glad to have some help there since I know Gilles has been http://www.cocoonsoftware.com/paypaldonate-us.htm with it for a few months and the current result is as good as we could get but varies according to formats or codecs if I understood correctly. Therefore if you have any leads in that field we would be very grateful :)


4)
Red light
pretty much means that it is using the original codec and settings I believe Gilles could be much more precise than me on that one .
Green light activates your modifications as you may have noticed.

5)
5. It will be really cool to have command-line execution option, this way people like me can write scripts
in order to make drop-replacement of converted file into their origin directory.
(Usually not all the files are located at the same dir., people sorts them out).
Today I need to spread the converted files manually back to their place.


You couldn't please us more , as we have already included that feature in our next version 3.6.0 not yet released. There are a lot of command lines here and there on the web and this will allow users to test them and be much faster than running them through DOS command lines, that is the whole point so we have included it with other things but this is one of the main changes for expert mode along with some possibility to save your presets in expert mode which should also be cool.

6)
On "stop converting" the application continues to the next file on the list, better to enable a way to stop completely.
I agree , we will have a look at this (see if we can fit it in 3.6.0 I think even a pause would be cool as well maybe a multiple choice button , I remember Gilles and I already had a discussion on that issue we will try.

7)
All help is always welcome
as we are always looking at new ways to provide our users with the best possible tool for converting. Thank you for your offer Audio would be nice and also progress bar as mentioned above.

The tool is Ffmpeg engine only .
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Re: Audio qulity on H.264 Expert-mode

Postby Team Cocoon » 01 Dec 2008, 15:50

The new QMC 360 is out and solves a lot of the problems posted here, also now includes ffmpeg command line input box
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